Diving Into the HR Recruiting Landscape: A Complicated Market and Outlook for the Next Year

HOST: We are back for the 15th episode of Talkin' Talent. We took a month off in March and are happy to be back with a fun episode.

HOST: In this episode, I chat with my friend Tori Mitchell, a peer in the industry. Tori has spent her entire career in recruiting and executive search, mostly working directly in the human resources space. We dive into the good, the bad, and the ugly of HR recruiting and what's ahead.

HOST: We had a month off in March while a lot of things were going on internally at Cordia, but we have some fun episodes coming up over the next few months. A few will highlight colleagues joining on the accounting and finance side of our business and some topics outside of HR.

HOST: If you enjoy this episode, please tell your friends and coworkers, anyone who appreciates good conversation about people, talent, and human resources. You can subscribe on Spotify.

HOST: I'm doing something a little different today. I'm talking with someone who brings a wealth of knowledge in recruiting and executive search in the HR space, although she does a lot of other things as well. Tori Mitchell, welcome to the podcast.


TORI MITCHELL: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm excited.


HOST: I really shouldn't call you a peer. You have almost three times as much experience as I do in this world. You've spent your entire 12-year career with Juno Search Partners, which is based out of Philadelphia, and you now live in South Carolina. Would you briefly tell us about your journey through recruiting and with Juno?


TORI MITCHELL: I've been with Juno for my entire career so far. I started about 12 years ago; they hired me right out of college. I was actually their very first employee, so it was just me and the two partners, Michael and Vicki, when I started.

TORI MITCHELL: Juno began focused solely on HR and administrative staffing, which is where I cut my teeth in recruitment. Over the years, I've taken on more responsibility, doing full lifecycle recruitment in the HR and admin space. For the past eight to ten years I've focused solely on HR, and for the last five years I've focused more on leadership roles.

TORI MITCHELL: Juno has grown tremendously during those 12 years. It was the three of us when we started, grew to about 90 to 95 employees in 2021, and is now leveling out closer to around 50. The pandemic period was wild for recruitment with many big projects, and I think we'll probably stay around this size for the foreseeable future.


HOST: That's a good sweet spot. We fluctuate between 40 and 50 on the Cordia resources side. We're not a tiny boutique of one or two people, but we're also not a large transactional staffing firm.

HOST: The pandemic had good and bad impacts. There were swings up and down over the past four years. 2020 was interesting; 2021 and 2022 were crazy. Last year there was a dip, and I'm bullish about this year.

HOST: One thing I ask everyone who comes on the podcast: when you were growing up and had a job, part-time or in college, was there any idea you would get into recruiting or HR from that first job?


TORI MITCHELL: Not really. I worked a lot in hospitality during high school and college. I was a server and bartender. My first job was as a busser at 14. I also worked at a hot dog stand and did work study in college as a receptionist for the theater and dance department, which was not something I was passionate about.

TORI MITCHELL: I can't say those jobs directly correlate to recruiting, other than learning how to talk to people and have conversations. That taught me a lot about interacting with people, which correlates to recruiting and client interactions.


HOST: There's no substitute for learning to deal with different personalities. Retail or hospitality gives you a good read on people.


TORI MITCHELL: It also developed my customer service skills, which helps me interact with clients and ensure they're satisfied. I didn't get involved in the actual hiring part of those jobs, but learning to deal with people taught me a lot.


HOST: Let's transition to the job market. We're coming at this mostly from a human resources slant. Now that we're about four-plus years past the first day of COVID, what are you hearing from candidates and clients in HR, people, and talent acquisition?


TORI MITCHELL: It's a tricky market. There are a lot of opportunities in HR, but many HR professionals remain on the market after layoffs or RIFs. I'm seeing lots of HR leadership opportunities and fewer entry-level HR roles. Talent acquisition has been the most impacted over the past year; my LinkedIn is full of recruiters looking for opportunities, and recruitment postings often get hundreds of applicants within hours.

TORI MITCHELL: So it's hard to describe: in one breath it's a decent market with lots of opportunity, and in the other breath there are many people still looking for work.


HOST: I feel for talent acquisition professionals. Companies overcorrected in the last 12 to 18 months and overhired. Many were hired fully remote because recruiters were needed so badly, and now with a shift to hybrid, if people moved to locations with fewer local jobs, it's more challenging.

HOST: Do you see recruiting jobs coming back in any industry?


TORI MITCHELL: A little. My team has worked on three high-level talent acquisition roles recently, director-level positions with 10-plus years of experience, which is good given the market. These roles have been challenging to fill because there are many candidates to screen and interview. Some of the recruitment roles were on-site positions, which can be difficult because many recruiters expect remote work.


HOST: Even if there are a lot of people on the market, companies still struggle to find the right candidates. Posting a job doesn't guarantee the right people will apply, and sifting through hundreds of applicants takes forever. Doing recruitment well is a full-time job.


TORI MITCHELL: Absolutely. When HR leaders also own talent acquisition, it can be overwhelming because recruitment is a full-time job. Phone screening and interviews alone can fill your whole day for one role. If an HR leader is working on five open positions at once, they won't have time for other responsibilities.


HOST: Knowing the right questions to ask and digging into gaps between a resume and a job description is time-consuming. A couple years ago offers were going above market and counteroffers were common; now companies have more leverage and are less willing to go far above market for pay or benefits.


TORI MITCHELL: Yes. Companies were hiring quickly in 2021 and 2022, sometimes making decisions faster than normal and not vetting candidates thoroughly. Over the last year they may have realized those hires weren't the right fit.


HOST: What do you see the rest of the year bringing in terms of positions within HR that you're working on most?


TORI MITCHELL: We're seeing a huge uptick in total rewards positions. Five to eight years ago benefits and compensation were often separate; now we see many combined comp and ben manager roles or total rewards roles that can include payroll and HR systems. Open enrollment timing may factor into hiring, or companies might be combining responsibilities into a larger role to attract candidates.

TORI MITCHELL: We're also seeing payroll positions and generalist roles like HR director or HR manager handling all aspects of HR. In 2021 and 2022 we saw many specialized diversity and inclusion roles; now DE&I is more often part of a general HR role or combined with learning and development.


HOST: If you're strong in compensation and can manage people, the market is very favorable. Top candidates get lots of outreach and often fend off recruiters. DE&I roles have sometimes been lumped into broader HR functions, especially in smaller organizations where budgets are tight and cuts happen.

HOST: Another trend I see is newly created director, senior director, and VP-level roles in small to mid-sized companies that haven't had HR representation at the table. Those are fun and consultative searches and attract many candidates, though some find it overwhelming to jump into something brand new.


TORI MITCHELL: I agree. With those roles, candidates often ask whether leadership is bought in. They want to know if the CEO or executive team wants HR at the table and whether they'll be able to challenge existing processes. Sometimes companies say they want that person but then resist change when the person starts.


HOST: What mistakes or challenges do you see organizations make when hiring for these roles or reorganizing and bumping up titles?


TORI MITCHELL: One common challenge is hiring for future needs rather than current needs. For example, a company at 150 employees planning to grow to 350 might hire someone who is strategic for future growth but can't be a player-coach doing tactical work today. Conversely, they might hire someone who can handle current tasks but can't scale into the strategic leader they need in the future.

TORI MITCHELL: It's hard to find candidates who can be strategic visionaries and also perform hands-on work as a team of one until the team grows.


HOST: Companies often get hung up on titles, inflating them to sound impressive even when they don't reflect the role's reality. That can be a disservice to the candidate and the company. The sweet spot is finding someone who can be in the weeds initially and then move into a more strategic role as the HR function matures.

HOST: Do you have a split in mind for roles that are replacements versus newly created due to growth?


TORI MITCHELL: Honestly, I'd say it's about 50/50. Many scenarios are replacements: someone left for another opportunity or due to in-person work requirements, and we've also seen a number of newly created roles over the past couple of months. It varies by industry; life sciences and biotech have seen growth, while some tech and SaaS companies have slowed, though not uniformly.


HOST: I think 50/50 sounds right. Compared to a few years ago, more roles might be backfills now, and sometimes the replacement role is upgraded or downgraded. Leaders often realize they need a different level of experience after someone leaves.

HOST: Are you hearing fewer conversations about people moving solely for pay increases and more about culture, reporting relationships, and company financial stress?


TORI MITCHELL: Yes. I rarely have conversations where the only reason is monetary. Compensation concerns improved after the first few years of COVID; salary ranges are not as wild as 2021-2022 and are closer to where they should be.


HOST: A quick question about Juno and remote work: Juno was Philadelphia-based, and you mentioned the office lease is ending. Tell me about that transition and your move to South Carolina.


TORI MITCHELL: Tomorrow is the last day of our office lease. Five years ago I wouldn't have thought we'd become remote-first. We loved being in the office five days a week, but COVID changed that. Many employees found they enjoyed working from home and valued flexibility for young families.

TORI MITCHELL: We decided to end the office lease and will have a budget for co-working spaces for teams who want to meet a couple times a month. We're planning more team-building events; we even have a pickleball tournament in May.

TORI MITCHELL: I moved to South Carolina to be closer to family. I still have clients in the Philadelphia area and across the country, and I can do my job from here the same way I did in Philadelphia.


HOST: That leads into networking. We advise professionals to put themselves out there and attend events. Five years ago networking was mostly in person; then virtual events became common during COVID. How has Juno adapted, and do you see virtual interactions replacing in-person networking?


TORI MITCHELL: I see my clients more now because everything is so virtual and video-heavy. I have weekly video calls that provide more face time than before, when follow-ups might have been audio calls. I still value in-person networking and attend many events; I'm involved in Charlotte SHRM and sit on the board. I'll be in Philadelphia next month for the HR Person of the Year awards dinner.

TORI MITCHELL: Virtual events have value, but in-person events remain irreplaceable for networking and relationship-building.


HOST: I go back and forth between preferring in-office daily and being fully remote. There's value in seeing people in person, but many are more productive at home and value the flexibility for family.


TORI MITCHELL: We work on fully remote roles, but most roles are hybrid: two or three days in the office. A few higher-level on-site roles exist, like executive assistant or chief of staff positions, but most searches are hybrid.


HOST: I joke about moving further south someday. Maybe that will be possible in the future.


TORI MITCHELL: Come down to the south; we'd love to have you. We're currently being attacked by cicadas in my yard.


HOST: We had cicadas here last year. It's wild how scientists can predict their emergence to the year and date.


TORI MITCHELL: That's above my pay grade.


HOST: We'll end it there. Thank you for joining me. Maybe we do this again next year and see how things played out.


TORI MITCHELL: I'd love that. It's almost like a time capsule.


HOST: Enjoy the rest of your day, Tori.


TORI MITCHELL: Thank you. It was great.