Bridging Accounting, Finance and People

HOST: We are ready for the 23rd episode of Talking Talent. This is a topic I have wanted to cover for quite some time.

I am joined by a Chief People Officer and a Chief Financial Officer. We cover a number of topics, primarily diving into the relationship and synergy between these impactful positions and how they can affect an organization.

I hope you enjoy the episode and would love your feedback. Enjoy listening.

Hello everyone. This is the 23rd episode of Talking Talent. We did not have an episode in May, and the goal was to do this once a month.

I have been looking forward to this conversation for a while now. If you enjoy this episode or others, please tell your friends and coworkers about it.

This podcast is for anyone who appreciates a good conversation about people, talent, and the world of HR or talent acquisition. You can subscribe wherever you get your podcasts, including Spotify, Apple, and Amazon, or you can visit the Cordia Resources or Cherry Bekaert websites.

It is not officially summer yet, though it feels like it after Memorial Day. Summer technically starts on Friday, and here in the D.C. area, we are expecting temperatures in the mid-90s next week.

Today I am joined by two people. I have known KRISTYN REED for a couple of years and have gotten to know Nicole Peace over the last few months.

KRISTYN REED is an experienced Chief Financial Officer with over 25 years of leadership experience. Nicole Peace is a Chief People Officer and human resources leader whom I deeply respect.

Kristen and Nicole, thank you for joining me today.

NICOLE PEACE: Thank you.

KRISTYN REED: Thanks for having us.

HOST: I hesitate to give a long, drawn-out introduction for everyone’s background, so I will ask both Nicole and Kristen to give a brief history of their experience. Nicole, let's start with you.

NICOLE PEACE: Thanks, Sam. I have been in HR for a little over 15 years now. This was not something I anticipated, especially reaching an executive-level role.

I went to school for art and started a freelance company painting residential murals after I graduated. At about 25, I decided I did not want to do art for income and wanted something with a consistent schedule.

I found an entry-level administrative position at a Government Contracting (GovCon) firm. The role was 20% office administration and 80% HR.

I loved working with people and was exposed to the business element of HR from the beginning. I stayed at that firm and supported government agencies directly as a contractor.

Later, I joined a GovCon startup for eight years, where I built the HR function and team. Following our acquisition by a large government contractor, I served as the VP of HR.

I stayed there for just under a year. While I valued my time there, I realized I wanted to work at a slightly smaller company where I could have more impact.

That led me to AIS, an IT consulting firm that supports government and commercial organizations with digital transformation. I joined as the VP of HR just under four years ago and was promoted to the organization’s first CPO position a year later.

HOST: That is very cool. I know from personal experience you have a lot going on at AIS. Kristen, how about you?

KRISTYN REED: Nicole, that is very cool that you created murals and residential art. I did not know that.

I am the CFO of technology companies. While "technology" is broad, most of my experience has been with software businesses and entrepreneurial, high-growth companies.

Usually, these were venture capital or private equity-backed. I typically joined once there was a real product to scale but perhaps lacking the infrastructure for sustainable growth.

I enjoy creating order and sense out of what can be a chaotic environment. I have been the CFO of six or seven companies at this point.

I have loved all of them despite the tough times. My role involved building and growing the business, focusing on accounting, finance, legal, and compliance.

It also included people and talent, which is what we are here to talk about. While people and talent often fell within my purview, I do not "control" it.

The vision for culture comes from the CEO and the entire leadership team. My role in people and talent included employee relations, recruiting, hiring, training, career building, and benefits.

It also involved managing costs and negotiating to ensure the company gets the most out of its resources. That is a little synopsis of my background.

HOST: I appreciate that. It is a perfect segue. I see the Monet book in Nicole’s video background now, so it all makes sense.

KRISTYN REED: I mostly noticed the leopard because I thought it was really cool.

NICOLE PEACE: I have been here four years and finally decided I was staying, so I just decorated my office for the first time.

HOST: Kristen, you alluded to the topic I have thought about for a long time. I deal with the relationship between the CFO and the CPO or CHRO daily.

I have seen how this relationship affects an organization across different industries and company sizes. It is crucial for success in modern organizations.

Kristen, based on your experience across six or seven companies, how has your way of working with HR morphed over the years?

KRISTYN REED: When I first became a CFO in San Francisco during the first tech boom, HR was struggling to keep up with the pace of investment. Many of us were out of our depth.

We had investors telling us to spend money, but we lacked key people in key roles. When I was promoted from Director of Finance to CFO, I was told I had to take over HR.

At that time, HR was very narrowly focused. I didn't want it because it was a mess and felt more like handling problems than expanding careers.

I eventually told the CEO I would do it if I had free reign to find the best people. That was the beginning of my shift in perspective.

Now, the head of HR has a direct line to the CEO, regardless of their title. I have seen the role of "People and Talent" expand significantly.

It is no longer the negative thing I avoided early in my career. You do not have a business without people.

The role has become a big umbrella that brings everyone in and has a real seat at the table. I have seen the profession gain much more prominence.

HOST: You mentioned adding value. Many people think of HR only as compliance or where you go to complain. Nicole, how have you seen HR's "seat at the table" evolve?

NICOLE PEACE: I agree with Kristen. There has been a significant escalation in strategic influence for HR over the last 10 years.

However, not everyone in the HR workforce was given the opportunity to be a strategic business partner. Including the senior HR leader in strategic decisions is vital.

You shouldn't make a decision and then ask HR to execute it. They should be in the room to advise during the decision-making process.

If an HR leader isn't ready yet, they still need to be in the room to learn the business. That exposure helps them develop into a CPO.

You must build your business acumen to be peers with the CFO. Whether you report to the CFO or not, there must be mutual respect and credibility.

HOST: I often hear from HR leaders about their discontent regarding budgets and costs. They sometimes feel left out of discussions regarding future hiring or team additions.

Kristen, how have you handled transparency with HR leaders regarding budgets, costs, and hiring?

KRISTYN REED: It is a tricky balance that depends on the organization. In my businesses, prioritizing and being agile are essential.

I used to try to shield HR leaders from potential changes to avoid creating stress. I have since learned it is better to be transparent.

I tell them things that might be stressful, like the possibility of pulling back on open positions. It is better to have trust and transparency.

HR leads must also demonstrate why their budget matters and what it will do for the organization. They need buy-in from the CEO and senior management.

A common theme is being transparent between the CEO, CFO, and HR in real-time. I expect professionals to be able to handle the news.

NICOLE PEACE: Building a business case is one of the most important skills for an HR leader. You have to connect people investments to business outcomes.

The only way to do that is to be exposed to the business—the good, the bad, and the stressful. That is how you become a co-collaborator.

Some of it is hard to quantify because it involves engagement or productivity, but you still have to work on that skill to get resources.

KRISTYN REED: We have focused on creating solid metrics in HR. When you have key metrics like retention, attrition, or Glassdoor scores, the debate over budget becomes easier.

Alignment on these metrics is important because retention and employee satisfaction impact every department. KPIs have become much more appreciated across organizations.

HOST: When does it make sense for a CHRO or CPO to report directly to the CEO instead of a CFO or COO?

NICOLE PEACE: Industry and growth rate are major factors. In a service or consulting-based organization where talent is the operating model, it should happen sooner.

Usually, when a company reaches the 300 to 500-person range, it is an indicator that the finance and HR leads should operate as peers.

KRISTYN REED: I agree with that size range. However, it also depends on the people involved.

A CEO might want to set the tone for culture but might not want the day-to-day management of HR. In those cases, reporting to a CFO who can move things quickly might be more effective.

The most important thing is that the respect is there among the executive team. The HR leader must be empowered early on.

HOST: Nicole, what advice do you have for aspiring HR leaders who feel they don't yet have a seat at the table?

NICOLE PEACE: Focus on understanding your industry and organization just as much as your HR expertise. Always speak to business outcomes.

Practice building business cases and articulate the value you bring. Have transparent conversations with your CFO and CEO.

KRISTYN REED: Knowing the business is how you get respect. You need to understand what people in every role actually do.

I once received advice from a CEO to focus only on the business, customers, and people for my first 90 days as a CFO. I have passed that advice on to others.

If you are in a situation where you will never be respected despite your efforts, do not be afraid to look elsewhere. There are organizations that will value your guidance.

HOST: I appreciate those thoughts. To wrap up, do you have any vacation plans for this summer or fall?

NICOLE PEACE: I have two weeks scheduled in August before school starts. We usually do "staycations" with day trips around the D.C. area.

KRISTYN REED: I spent three weeks in New Zealand in January, so the rest of my year is focused on family, friends, and a girls' trip in the fall.

HOST: I am heading to Folly Beach, South Carolina, in August. I am the kind of person who starts working if I am just sitting at home, so I need to get away to actually relax.

Thank you both for doing this. It was a great conversation on a salient topic.

NICOLE PEACE: Thank you, Sam.

KRISTYN REED: Thank you. One topic we didn't cover is whether payroll belongs in accounting or HR. I get asked about that all the time.

HOST: As a CFO, where do you think it belongs?

KRISTYN REED: I agree with HR leaders—it should not be with them.

HOST: That could be a whole separate episode. Thank you both.

NICOLE PEACE: Bye.

KRISTYN REED: Bye.